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DISCUSS YOUR CHARTS, ANALYSIS AND TRADING
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Hi all,
This is the first time that I post in this forum. Thanks to creators for making it possible 🙂
I’m analyzing the BTCUSDT (from Binance) weekly. I’d like to know the reading and opinion from other members about how I labeled it, if you read more strength than weekness, and about the last closed bar last week which was the first with growing up volume after 6 weeks. I also notice that it was supported above the close of PSY bar.
Thanks!
PS: I am not sure if I’m writing it in the right format or in the proper section.
Hi, I’m just registered in this forum.
I’m wondering how to create a new post, I only see ‘reply’ buttons.
Thanks
Juan, thanks for registering. There are some limitations on the forum’s capabilities at the moment, so to start a new thread just reply to a new thread post that I will put up and you will get some responses from other members
OK, I’ll do in that way.
Thanks for making this possible.
New thread
Thanks for posting because it’s been a long time. Nice looking chart, by the way. IMHO, subject chart looks like it’s in distribution. Markdown should begin soon. Distribution signaled after the high, followed by moving to the downside (accumulation). No further manipulation of the upside looks apparent.
These are both interesting charts. Its amazing how many interpretations of trend channels can be created. I think this is one of the things I struggle with is how many different was you can interpret this and which one is the “correct” one. Here is my chart of the S&P. Keep in mind its not futures.
Quote from the great Richard Wyckoff: (K) Determining whether a trading range represents Absorption (new
demand) in preparation for a further advance; or Renewed
Distribution (new supply) in preparation for a further decline.
Here’s something I’m watching closely.
PnF-er: What’s your play – long or short? IMHO, the chart looks like a redistribution which means the bias is down. So, if you plan to go short, it may be a worthwhile trade? Again, IMHO. Happy trading!
Interesting. Would not the fact that selling is still elevated, yet price is rising suggest that its already being absorbed (much effort, no result)?
My Wyckoff “knowledge” is cursory at this point, and as such, I don’t know what “E” and “R” represent. Also, not sure what you mean by analogs.
Other than that…. lol Perhaps asked in a different way I could better understand what you’re seeking with your question?
Thanks.
Sorry, E is Effort, R is Result.
Analogs are areas on the chart that are contextually similar. By comparing, we can see how Supply and Demand are interacting in a comparative way to get a feel for which force is more in control and how that is evolving. The gold rectangles are analogs as I see it.
Here’s how I would view things in light of my net buying/selling indicator. One perspective.
Thanks!
Cool! One difference between your Trading View chart and mine is the 2016 rally which your chart shows as 2 columns sandwiching a reaction column, and mine shows it as a single column of X’s – the green arrows. Either way, there is less buying in the first upswing than the second, yet the first is able to extend further above the prior level of resistance; and it holds above the breakout level in a more bullish way than the second column. Effort versus Result is better in the first instance. The current consolidation could be absorption, but it could also be an upthrust, remains to be seen. Above 10 helps the absorption story, below 6 the upthrust with a several possible targets to the downside.
New thread
Frantz – I’ve been watching a lot of your AOT videos with JohnnyScan. Great Stuff! I’m working on improving my Tape Reading skills. Right now I am profitable only 36% of my trades and trying to improve chart reading. You have been involved with Wyckoff Analytics a while. Do you have any suggestions on how to improve my tape reading skills? Thanks.
P.S – Is there a place we can submit charts for candidates to be discussed on AOT?
Hi Curt, sorry for the delayed response. I haven’t been doing enough myself lately of the advice I am going to give you. The best way, bar none, to improve your chart reading skills is to practice the craft. How to do that? Most of the chart services have the ability to pick an instrument and a starting date and then go bar by bar and trade it. Keep detailed records of your practice trades just like you would if it was in real life. Follow your Trading Plan rules. Do this for a half an hour a day every day and you will see your trading results improve significantly. It takes time and effort, there is nothing else to do as Roman says…
You can submit one of your trades for AoT to wyckoffassociates@gmail.com
Take care,
Frantz
No worries Frantz. I appreciate your comments but I’m still not clear what I should be looking for when going bar by bar. I have gone through that exercise of going bar by bar and taking trades based on my setups but I have never tracked the data. I do, however, have data from actual trades. So far I have tracked 105 trades. My win % is 36% but still have a positive P&L (somehow) . I can break it down even further. My win rate is 25% when taking a trade in phase C, 40% in a Phase D. Trades that I go long on i have win rate of 38% and a win rate of short trades of 14%. Every trade is posted in power point available to review.
I have all this data but I still don’t know what I should be looking for when I look at my trades. I know I should be looking for mistakes but the only mistake I see is taking too many trades that are losing trades. How do I change that? Are there questions I should be asking myself when looking at the charts? Or will I somehow just absorb the knowledge I need just by tracking this?
I’m sure there is a lot to digest here. I appreciate any help.
Curt, post your best trade and worst trade out of the 105 and let’s take a look and see what we can learn…
Frantz
Frantz – This one is by far my best trade. A definite outlier of my trading.
Curt, thanks. I want to take a look at EPAM first. Q1 I am going to assume that your intention with your trades is at minimum to catch an intermediate term (months+) swing? Q2 What jumps off the page about EPAM compared to the others?
Frantz – Yes the intention is typically to buy in a Phase D and my target is based on a PnF calculation. Every once in a while I will take a an option trade if im looking to buy at support and sell at resistance.
What jumps off the page is that EPAM seems to work immediately. There are some small consolidations along the the way but they are quickly resolved and price continues higher. They are all taken in Phase D but only 1 out of the 5 trades I submitted worked out. Otherwise I don’t know what to look for as to “why” EPAM worked out and the others didn’t.
Curt, great! Before I start with any Analysis of the Trade work with you, the plan is for this forum to be replaced in a different format in the near future. I’m not exactly sure when, and I don’t know what is going to happen to the posts in here when they shut it down. Here is my email for us to continue this discussion in case the forum goes away while we are in the middle of what could be an extensive set of posts… frantz.herr@gmail.com
Okay, on to AoT. Here is a summary of what you have told me about your trading so far: You trade stocks. Your intention with your trades is generally, at minimum, a swing trade of several months or longer. You have a defined entry point, and you use PnF analysis to establish an exit target. Your win/loss ratio following your plan has been 36%/64%. You have been doing post analysis on all of your trades. Your main goal is to improve your win rate and the overall profitability of your trading. This is going to require some changes to how you trade.
I’ve been analyzing the trades you posted in detail. I will be discussing these trades using the format from the Anatomy of a Trade process that Roman and Wyckoff Analytics have established. However, I want to take this one step further and suggest how you can use the analysis to refine your Trading Plan to achieve your goals. In the process, we will work together to create rules based on what we learn from the post analysis of your trades. So here we go.
The first step to improving your performance, is to understand the overall market context you are operating in, because that is joined at the hip with the outcome of your trades. Every Trading Plan needs to start here, and you need a method to evaluate the market context that tells you when to get busy and when to lay low. In your case, this is one of the keys to improving your win rate. The post directly below is exhibit #1.
Curt, this is one possible market condition indicator you could incorporate into your Trading Plan, the S&P Bullish Percent Index. If you subscribe to Wyckoff Market Discussion you will be quite familiar with it. I have noted where each of the trades you posted occurred. If you don’t wish to use this indicator to assess the market’s condition, please let me know what you will be using.
I have set the time period to monthly to eliminate most of the noise. When it is above 50, the market can be considered to be bullish, so the most basic first consideration for any trades you make is for this to be above the purple line. There are some other observations that seem important as well. This is 10 years of history. The time spent above the 50 level between drops below it has been compressing. The overall level of each peak has also generally been declining. This is suggestive of a market environment that is less likely to produce long trading upswings. Regardless of the duration of the swings, the best returns are likely to occur early in the rising phase of each swing of the indicator as it breaks above the 50 line or reverses from an approach to it from above. Notice where your trades occurred. The first rule if you want to improve your results is to wait for the overall market to give you a tailwind. This means being patient and waiting for the signal. Please comment.
New thread
It will feel very good for those collecting interest on all the crazy house buying of the last year, especially with increasing rates.
If those home buyers locked into a fixed rate, then nothing to worry about, unless you plan to sell and buy again soon. Except, higher rates mean lower valuations. Of course, if you don’t plan to sell soon, no worries. Hope you fit into one of the positive categories.
I bought 16 months ago, back when we could still negotiate the price down a little, right before things went crazy. I locked it for 5 years. My neighbor just sold her much smaller house for 75k more than what I paid for mine. Prices inflated by a lot over the last year. I wouldn’t want to be buying right now.
Hi everyone,
On their charts, Roman and Bruce often use a Relative Strength indicator. This is an indicator I often use but mine doesn’t have that moving average to it (I assume it’s a moving average). Can you tell me more about it? Is it a moving average of the price or the RS?
RE: HONEYWELL (HON)
IMHO. Here’s an interesting chart which includes RSMK (same as RS but w/some proprietary adjustments) and the correlation indicator. The latter indicator would confirm you selected the correct index or sector used in the RS comparison. Trade on!
RE KO: HAS THE BELL RUNG? IMHO, DISTRIBUTION TRADING RANGE.
It starded from an uptrend. Bias is bullish. The price has hung to the high of the range for some time after the BC. I find that bullish too. The rally tothe ST is on decreasing volume and fails to reach the top ofthe range. It is then followed by a sharp decline on increased volume. That’s bearish to me. We didn’t see many test of the low but the 1st kind of hung there for a while before to rally up and the 2nd reached lower than the first. The current rally up is very nice though but with all that stuff I consider bearish inthe formation, I wouldn’t be super excited just yet.
To take with a grain of salt. I’m learning so I probably know nothing.
by the way, what is that indicator that deaw waves on your chart? Soke kind of Weis Wave indicator?
Thank you for your comments. To answer your question, I purchased the zig-zag indicator in question. Not touting its superiority. You can use the zig zag percent just as well. I like to use fib numbers for the absolute or percentage change. For example, the Dow Theory uses 3%, but other fib numbers such as 3, 5, 8, 13, 21 and 34 have worked just as well for me. This beloved site is purely classical so does not use zig-zag, as the indicator did not exist when Wyckoff set forth his theory. The zig-zag helps me put structure into the price action. It works for me, but may not for others. Trade on.
Sorry for the late reply. When I read your post I could not figure weather I would go long or not at that point. My guess would have been to wait another bar and see how it behave after that break above resistance on friday. A test of that resistance would be a buy for me.
MSFT: Buy Sell or Hold (by my trading plan rules)… Currently in a TR, entered from an uptrend, so initial bias is bullish, to be confirmed or fail. The break of support bar labeled as MSOW has no downside continuation, is the only daily commitment after the break, and quickly rallies back up through support. Shakeout behavior but needs confirmation. Confirmation comes after two testing bars, rally is now a spring and an entry signal by my rules (stop buy above the three day highs, SL after the market pulls me in below the lows of the wide spread entry/breakout bar). Good volume on the breakout through resistance, but bar does not extend beyond 1/2 of the bar above resistance, so Supply is present, expect testing or reaction (move SL to slightly below 1/2 of the range of this BO bar). The price target would be MSOS highs captured with trailed SL’s if the current upswing continues. Nothing else to do for now.
This assumes no previous positions and intention is for a swing trade.
Thanks for posting Skout.
Hi Frantz, I just want to say that I find your analysis of the situation most instructive. Thanks.
If I got it right, thsi is distribution. The las bar brings some doubts but I guess thenext few days will tell.
Re: TRMLF – SHORT
IMHO, accurate analysis of where this stock is heading -down. My chart hints the start of an accumulation range for which we await developments. Happy trading.
Hi Skoutasg. So you see an accumulation and I see distribution. I’ll go back to studying that chat thats for sure :). What made me think distribution is the failed attempts to rally up after that all time high in early nov. volatility seem to be increasing too. Also there is that big bar down on dec 1st followed by what I considered a weak rally.
Anyway I’m very new to wyckoff so my analysis could be all wrong.
Oh my, excuse my poor english, I realize I might have read you all wrong 🙂
The chart here puzzle me. I cant decide where to place the BC. I kind of want to chose the first which would place us above the creek and now beck against it for the second time.
on the attached image I labeled SC instead of BC by error.
any thoughts or tips that could have helped me know for sure where the BC is on this chart?
Thank you
Patrice, the structure could be distribution but there’s always the possibility that the late Nov/early Dec move is a shakeout. The initial bias would be R-A to be confirmed or fail. Do you see anything overtly bearish in the structure prior to the upthrust? Interesting chart, thanks for sharing.
You’re right, it could be accumulation and the Nov/Dec move could be a shakeout. I thought about it but found that came after the upthrust to be rather bearish and of increased volatility. As for your question, no, I do not see anything overly bearish before the upthrust.
Hi Patrice, I think it would make sense to look for the change of behavior and use that reversal point as the BC.
A low priced stock like this probably isn’t going to have significant institutional participation, so using the textbook Wyckoff approach may not work as well as with a more seasoned instrument. Instead, you might consider an approach similar to what Roman and William described in their Tape Reading Lab review of AMC. The idea is to watch for breakout or breakdown confirmations for your entries and exits.
Best,
Frantz
Thank you for your reply. I must admit I wasn’t expecting 2 replies that quickly. You two are very generous of your time. I have to remember what Frantz said and look for the change of behavior when I have a hard time spotting a BC or SC. And its true that this stock may not have lots of institutional interest. Thats something else I must be careful about.
After reading your replies I went back to the chart and realized looking back enough was helping finding more about where we are here: in the late stage of a 5 year old accumulation.
RE: GENGF
Hola! Thanks for posting. It’s been awhile since someone has posted. Keep them coming. The purpose of this blog is to learn, so no one should ever be shy about what they post. Your couragious. IMHO, this stock may have hit its buying climax or the start of a distribution trading range? Further tests are needed to verify this hypothesis. However, beware that the price jujitsu prior to the climax (also identified as a cup-n-handle or ABC correction) portends that the recent high is a buying climax (BC), IMHO, so expect the price to decline once the trading range is completed.
Hi and thx for your reply. I didn’t know how to replyto both of you together so I posted a reply above
schw
schw p&f
RE: AAPL
Bloggers: Here’s AAPL. What do you say – a distribution AR or reaccumulation AR?
Does anyone do the Bias Game quizzes on Twitter? I am 0-6 in the last 6 weeks. I can always point out both elements of distribution and accumulation. I just never know which to put more weight on.
Curt, have you looked at this week’s puzzle? I have it as distribution, but Roman has been sneaky lately 😁 Frantz
Just saw the answer…. 0 for 7
I have it as distribution as well. The large amount of volume near the middle of the chart (highs) and the price being rejected from these areas makes me think its distribution. However, the far right of the chart looks like it could be a spring.
Here are three headers for new discussion topics
RE: VIX
I thought to post this chart for your commentary. The VIX has elements of accumulation and distribution but my efforts to map the data have shown mixed results. The wild swings of the VIX remind me of swings evidenced by Robin Hood stocks such as AMC and GME where we see the so-called short-squeeze used for effect. When do we know a quick short squeeze is in the offing? Well, fiddling around, I applied the RSI indicator and RS index (DOG being the proxy) to the VIX weekly chart which produced some interesting results. What are your thoughts?
Skout: thanks for posting. I track the VIX and the $DWCF ATR5 each week as part of my overall market condition update – both are volatility indicators. I have found them to be coincident measures with little predictive value. They have both been trending gradually lower since the Covid decline market lows of March 2020, confirming bull market conditions.
im new Frantz, like to share some charts if thats ok
Hi Ryan, please do. Do you want to post them in one thread or do you want me to set up some additional headers? Frantz
I can post them in one thanks Frantz been studying for about 2 years, I use short term options, and manage my own knvestments, and do really well with Wyckoff (I started with another system so a lot of my charts have indicators). Studied everything, I think I read every known credible Wyckoff resource, and follow Professor Frazer blog. Even got the original course. I’m in Scotland
Thanks for introducing yourself Ryan! I’ll be looking at your charts this weekend… Learning Wyckoff methodology can be a game changer! Frantz
Yes thank you Frantz. I was introduced to it, by a friend in another strategy site, he was a friend of M r Weiss.
Any feedback, comments or criticism appreciated
big view of cycle
RE: DAL
COMMENTS: Ryan updated this chart, discovering an error in my wave count. Now looks like the price has entered an ABC correction phase (reaccumulation per se) not a distribution TR as previously opined. This summer is a killer with most campaigns on hold likely until Sept., IMHO.
Skout – “This summer is a killer with most campaigns” You can say that again. My gains for the year are starting to dwindle away.
Curt: In the same boat must liquid 6-stocks on Monday. MM engineered this coming downturn masterly.
RE: DAL
Ryan: Since my last post on 6/17, DAL has indeed entered what appears to be a distribution trading range. Leg D did not surpass Leg B which confirmed possible sideways movement. In the end, you were correct, just saying.
Ryan: To me, distribution means a stock in a trading range (TR) which if the pattern is correct means the price will exit below the TR. My daily chart of DAL shows price having recently completed a MMU (measured move up). From here, DAL will either complete another measured move up of legs C, D, A, B or price could enter another trading range beginning at the prior leg B. In a MMU, distribution is good because the Smart Money is causing prices to rise as part of its campaign (it’s selling shares to the public). The campaign will stop at the BC or enter a reaccumulation phase (absorbing more shares) prior to resuming the advance. Just the way I view things, no criticism intended.
Ryan: Identical to my DAL analysis. Thank you for posting.
i have lots
this is WDC, didnt trade, marked as an exercise
i dont want to post too many
zoom communications accum
wba, made about 30%, kept going without me
Ryan: Notice ABC correction. Not a reaccumulation TR but a reaccumulation nevertheless. Smart Money may intend to extend leg C (absorb more public selling) before restarting the uptrend?
bank of america, made about 30%, kept going without me
Shell midstream, didnt trade
xom accum, still hold
Ryan: The beat goes on!
psxp, large accum base, i continue to hold
Ryan: Hold a good idea! One of Buffet’s favorites.
my favourite at moment also,
thanks
New thread
this is UAL, reaccumulation.
volume and volatilty reduction
raising demand level possibly
Hi Ryan / Skout – Thank you guys for keeping this forum going. I’ve been meaning to post. Just to weigh in on UAL. I think the bias is still accumulation with a down trending trading range. After the ST the price had a SOW that reversed as a spring in Phase B. The latest reaction down is muted with smaller bars and declining supply. I would not be surprised if we saw another downward reaction to test the the supply of the April 20th bar.
RE: UAL
Ryan: Regrettably, looks like distribution to me, IMHO. Only time will tell. Look for a break through the ice for confirmation.
point figure, the reaccum and accum targets almost match
drilling into 60min, it has a symmetry, and that supports decision making.
inverted hs, kind of.
the 60min really shows volatility reduction in the bars
RE: JD
Ryan: My daily chart also confirms an accumulation is taking place. My entry would likely await further development of the TR in anticipation of a breakout upward using the daily timeframe. You ‘re on a roll!
this was actual trade.
short term option
enter 2.6; exit 5.0
aprox 90% in a wk
Thank you Skoutasg, yes im.A full time options trader, I think JD goes quite a bit further. And I may follow.It and try and trade the upwaves. I had a short term target, but I was very happy with 90% in a week,.so closed it and relaxed with a bbq, at weekend instead of having live positions. Wyckoff and short term options are very effective if your willing to be quite active
Re: FCX
Ryanm: Good call. Also, FCS is an excellent exercise in measured moves (MM). Attached, if anyone has any comments. IMHO.
Thanks Skoutasg. I’m not familiar with measured moves
New thread
Accumulation or Distribution?
Ryanm: What do you see on daily and weekly charts? How does their status affect your proposed trade?
im a short term option trader. here is my live trade, +70% still hold
Ryan – I’ve been thinking about starting to trade options. Would you mind sharing how you select options and how it relates to Wyckoff entries? How far in the future do you select expirations dates? Do you use the greeks in your selection?
the indicators (i know a true wyckoff expert doesnt use indicators); are atrade system, taught by an options expert, when i first came to options thats what i learnt. for a 30min i chose 1 strike out the money, 35 days. set my target. marked my chart, so its planned. if it goes to target (or close) in duration i profit.
in Dr prudens book, he reccomends incoporating a recognisable reversal pattern, so that Apple chart is an inverted head and shoulers. the head and shoulders target and pf target are about the same
Curt, that is Apple trade close
overthrow of trend line
+110% on short term option
Ryan – Looks like some absorption near the resistance line of the trading range.
yes thats how i read it also, i have been learning Wyckoff, for about 2yrs
Frantz – I’ve zoomed in on the most recent price action. To me it looks like a structure within a structure or possibly a TR in a BUA. The recent TR showing some signs of volatility with the SOW then immediately shooting up to an UTA. However, the volatility seems to be slowing and price is not reaching the bottom of the TR. Is it working off some of that supply? I am guessing Accumulation. I don’t feel confident in my answer. I have gotten Roman’s bias game wrong for the last three weeks.
Thanks Curt, we are in agreement. Here’s the weekly bar chart. This is on my WL but I want to see more signs of absorption and good demand before buying.
The broad U.S. stock market appears to be dealing with hidden supply at resistance and feels heavy to me; so that could put the kibosh on my bullish ideas.
New thread
Frantz: You need to reposition the New Thread to the top of the page, please. Skout
Done. Roman has been talking about moving all the discussion forums to Discord. He is so busy – it will happen when it happens…